Joe Goldberg wasn’t alone in his head throughout You season 4. After a mental breakdown, Rhys Montrose became the psychological embodiment of Joe’s psychosis. Rhys was a real person, but Joe had never met him. Joe became obsessed with Rhys’ life and ultimately killed him as real life collided with his insanity.
In Part 2 of season 4, Rhys was fully unleashed alongside Joe. Ed Speleers chewed up this meaty role and became the breakout star of the new season. But this isn’t his only notable role in 2023. The British actor, who was a total scene-stealer as Stephen Bonnet in Outlander, is also starring in the new season of Star Trek: Picard as Picard’s son. HollywoodLife spoke EXCLUSIVELY with Ed about these memorable roles and what’s ahead.
At the end of the season, it seems like Rhys is gone from Joe’s mind forever, but then Joe sees him in his reflection back in New York. Has Sera Gamble spoken to you since Part One aired about what this means for Rhys?
Ed Speleers: I mean, not since Part One. During shooting, I had a long chat with Sera about sort of the end of Part One and into Part Two because there was some, as you’ve seen, pretty meaty stuff coming up in the scripts. She wanted to break that down, and she was fairly candid and flirted with the idea of saying, look, we are potentially looking at further seasons. There’s no hard fast sell on that one. Nothing is concrete. I’ve not heard anything since I was with Penn [Badgley] the other day on his podcast and were sort of joking about it a little bit. I don’t know anything at the moment.
Over the course of the season, who do you think Rhys represented to Joe?
Ed Speleers: Good question. I think in terms of who he is to Joe, he is a version of Joe. I think he’s the gregarious nature that you see in Rhys in the second half in particular… there’s not necessarily the volatility because I think that has been in Joe, but the way it comes across as this devil on your shoulder, I feel that there was a charisma to Rhys. I feel that maybe that’s something that Joe wishes he could unleash, although he has his own charisma. He’s been very successful with charisma. I feel there’s a side to Joe that sees Rhys as what he wishes he could be. It’s all the things he wishes he could be, I suppose.
It’s that success element that Joe hasn’t ever been able to grasp. Even when he thinks he’s gotten what he wants, Joe always years for something more. I think Rhys is the embodiment of that successful, building-yourself-up-from-the-ground ideal that Joe has always aspired to but never quite grasped.
Ed Speleers: I think that’s a good point, and I think why he latches on to that with Rhys because there are similar parts. He’s not just looking at the higher echelons of society. He is viewing someone where there’s a clear similarity in their journey. I think that’s why he goes, if he could do it, then I could do it.
I love that the dynamic between Rhys and Joe explores platonic obsession, rather than a romantic obsession. Especially in today’s world, there’s so much envy. People are constantly comparing themselves to others. With Joe’s obsession with Rhys, he sees the life and image that he wants and latches onto that to an obsessive degree.
Ed Speleers: I suppose that highlights some of the toxic world we’re living in at the moment, which is a dangerous thing, isn’t it? I’m on social media. I see it and you witness it. That’s something that people are constantly battling with, as well as what is a good level of appreciating something in someone, and when does it spill into something too much, and to the point where it’s detrimental to yourself and just not allowing you to be happy with your own being.
You got to work mostly with Penn throughout season 4. What was it like building that Joe and Rhys dynamic with him? Rhys advocated for a lot of terrible things, but he never lied to Joe, at least.
Ed Speleers: Because of the way it’s written, and what I love about the show, is that you can be dealing with these really contentious issues, heinous crimes, and yet in the way it’s constructed, you’re allowed to enjoy it. You’re allowed to escape with it. I think that ties into their relationship very well because, yes, some of the things Rhys says does encourage Joe to do are awful. But yet, there’s a real levity to the way he does it. I think especially in that second part, though, he’s having fun. He was having so much fun in the moment. Penn and I discussed that quite a lot because as the part was building as the show went along he and I discussed how this was going to work, how the audience can respond to something very different. The obsession switches to a much more platonic thing. But in terms of our day-to-day, I think Penn and I hit it off very quickly. He’s a fiercely intelligent human, but he has such a gracious attitude and approach that he’s a very calming presence. I thoroughly enjoyed working with him and in such close proximity. I think he did because I feel that it was a different time for him. He actually was able to have a full-on conversation with a character for starters. It wasn’t all being played out in his head so there was a good back and forth. He’s wonderfully funny, and I think we really dialed into the comedic element, which was so much fun to have with that as well.
Do you think Joe will ever be able to truly get rid of Rhys for good?
Ed Speleers: I hope not because that means I can get to do some more. I mean, that’s a good question. I imagine he has to be able to deal with it to give the story some closure, to give that section of the story some closure. But I think the thing with Joe is that doesn’t necessarily mean that’s going to put a stop to how he behaves really, this impulsion, and the demonic actions he takes are pretty severe. I think the moment we’re exploring, is this a cause of it? Is this a reason for him behaving in such a way? I feel that Rhys will have to be gotten rid of at some point.
How do you think Rhys feels about Kate?
Ed Speleers: Because of everything that surrounds Kate and her father and her background, I think he sees a very strong woman in Kate. In the long run, he thinks that she’s a good match for Joe basically because I think that might allow them to work alongside each other. By him not having Kate in his life, does it give Rhys more longevity? I think because they end up having this very wealthy set up in New York, I feel Rhys would think that that’s something he could exploit and use to his advantage.
You’re also playing Jack Crusher in Star Trek: Picard? Did you know going in that you were going to play Picard’s son?
Ed Speleers: I knew fairly early on. Once the offer was made, I was told that he was going to be Picard’s son. I feel weird saying that out loud because for so long, I’ve been shrouded in secrecy. Now I can say that. The offer was made. I knew that much. But in terms of the full breakdown of what was happening, that wasn’t until I spoke to Terry Matalas, the showrunner, and he gave me everything, all the details, the full proceed of what is going to be taking place. It’s pretty major. The storyline for Jack is pretty severe. He sort of described it as an origin story. That’s his pitch. That’s his thinking. That’s what we’re thinking and hoping.
When you say origin story and with Picard coming to an end, is this a jumping-off point for Jack?
Ed Speleers: In an ideal world, yes. That’s what Terry [Matalas] wants. That’s what I would love. There’s been no hint from Paramount or Alex Kurtzman, anyone like that, if that’s the case necessarily. Star Trek is such a revered show, and it’s got such a huge following over many decades. I think as a natural result, it means that universes can always exist, and it means that the characters could always have other lives. I feel that it’s a breeding ground that could create more. I loved this role from start to finish. I do get very emotional thinking about it because it meant a lot to me and my family. This is a very long answer, but I feel that coming out here was something I was striving towards for such a long time. Pretty much since the beginning of my career, I’ve been trying to find a way to be working out here on a job and it be very fulfilling in a big part. That finally happened and it happened at a point where things weren’t necessarily working out with work, so I feel very, very privileged and this part has a very dear place in my heart. I would love to do more.
Obviously, being Picard’s son, that’s a lot of pressure. Do you feel that at all?
Ed Speleers: Absolutely. I mean, you can’t escape pressure. I suppose what I’ve learned over the years and in particular with You and Picard is that you have to turn that pressure into some sort of positive energy and an outlet that can, rather than stifle you, enrich you and allow you to express yourself I suppose. I’m a big fan of sport, football in particular, so I’m always looking at what their regimes are, what their training schedules are, and how they approach things because I’m fascinated by it. In acting, there are similarities. You’re out on your own a lot of the time and you’re having to focus, so the pressure was there. But I had to turn it into a good resource and enjoy and relish it a little bit. Because when you get to work with these people, the pressure dissipates because they want to do the work as well. They want to concentrate on making these scenes as good as possible.
What was your first interaction like with Patrick Stewart?
Ed Speleers: Our first interaction was we went for lunch. He and I sort of broke bread, shared a glass of wine, discussed all things England, Yorkshire football, theater. I think we bonded very quickly. He is a wonderful man. For anybody to still be striving to better themselves at an age of vintage that he is and still wanting to turn up every day… He did series two and three back-to-back day in and day out. That’s a lot, and he still brought it with me. I think we struck a rapport because we didn’t always have to say a lot to each other. I think we just like sparring with each other in the scenes. The relationship developed and the relationship was playing out through the narrative with me and him. We got on famously.